Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Post comments on local Poynton issues or reply to others.

Moderators: tarboat, knighs, nedsram

nedsram
Posts: 4718
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:35 pm
Location: Poynton (board admin)

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby nedsram » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:14 pm

Planning application ref 17/6471M is here.

Master plan. Note the provision for a road leading to a possible second phase towards Lower Park Road.

AndrewJ
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby AndrewJ » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:46 pm

Unsurprisingly this hasn't been significantly changed since the consultation.

Pluses:
  • 29 social houses, so at last some much-needed cheaper houses for Poynton.
  • 2 children's playgrounds (no details that I could see)
  • An allotment patch! Doesn't look big at approx 750sqm, probably 6 or so half-size plots, and more a sop than anything, but better than nothing. Can't see how you'd access it though!
  • Makes Hazelbadge Road 20mph, good for the school.
  • Limits parking near the school to 10 minutes which is likely to remove a lot of school traffic if policed effectively, as 10 mins isn't really long enough for anything other than quick drop-off - young kids need more than that.
  • Apparently 146 houses will only generate 230 car journeys in an entire weekday, so obviously Poynton will be the first place in the world to benefit from StarTrek-style matter transporters, which is something to celebrate.

Minuses (apart from the fact that we will lose what is now a rewilded and pleasant meadow):
  • They appeared to have made a traffic count of current traffic with their eyes shut while looking the wrong way.
  • Still no access path to the adjacent railway station, which seems a little short-sighted. Perhaps they can't get access permission but that would be odd given the station's current poor access by foot or bike and Network Rail's enthusiasm for such things. At present they say the site is 450m from the station, but it could be less than 50m!
  • Claim a 2 metre wide pavement along Chester Road, which is incorrect. It is too narrow for 2 people to walk comfortably side-by-side, so unless I am unusually portly I would say approx 1-metre.
  • They will have to widen Hazelbadge Road at the junction with Chester Road, which they will only be able to to if they take a piece of the adjacent houses' gardens. Assuming they are given permission to do so, this design is entirely about making the speed of cars entering and exiting quicker, which flies in the face of most traffic planning in a school and residential area. It also makes the crossing of the road for people walking to the station and beyond more difficult.
  • Looks like they haven't adequately replaced the 2 footpaths that currently run through the location (council's PROW team has already seen this I notice).
  • Travel plan seems to be based entirely on London-centric ideas about how people can move about. They seem to think that walking and cycling are the easy first-choice options for anyone who wants to travel within Poynton, and public transport for further afield. Unless they only plan to sell to fit Green Party activists, and have made a contribution to decent walking/cycling infrastructure I find this unlikely. It doesn't even look like many of the roads in their own development will have pavements.
  • The currently full Lower Park school is the school of choice for the developers, however there is no mention of extra spaces being funded that I can find.
  • Needless vehicle access point into the field behind (the field can already be accessed from 2 other points). Obviously intended for future development, and against the terms under which this plot of land was granted housing permission.
  • I'd have thought that coaches for the school would find it more difficult to turn under these plans. The traffic planning only takes into account the turning circle of a medium size car.
  • Usual rather optimistic and odd choice of local facilities and distance to local facilities. Probably a non-local doing it from a desk using Google. :lol:
  • Amusing whinge about the pedestrian crossing on Chester Road making traffic planning difficult, so appear to want to pretend it is not there. At the same time claiming that the Poynton Relief Road will significantly reduce delay times at the junction, when their own figures show that it won't, particularly. We're talking maybe 1 or 2 seconds per car.

Rostervor
Posts: 1186
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:27 pm

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby Rostervor » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:37 am

nedsram wrote:..............Note the provision for a road leading to a possible second phase towards Lower Park Road.


I queried the construction of the wide access road into the field owned by P.E Jones on the South side of the bridge on Woodford Road.
I was referred to the following document.
http://www.semmms.info/wp-content/uploa ... 7.64Mb.pdf
To make it easier Page 104 items 6.137 to 6.154 refer and parts of couple of items are below with item 6.140 being of interest
6.137 .................. relates to land which would be retained as Kingsley land to the south of the A6MARR. Mr Kingsley states that this land is accessed from an existing 7.3m (24 ft) wide gateway on Woodford Road to the west, which he improved some years ago and has used without interference for over 20 years[4.45]. However, this access does not open directly onto Kingsley land, but onto a sliver of land owned by P E Jones.
Notwithstanding Mr Kingsley's assertions, he could not present any firm written evidence to the Inquiry to verify his claim that he has rights over the P E Jones' land to use this access[5.51J.

That is a gateway into a field not a roadway.

6.139 ............. although it would require a small amount of work outside the CPO limits, to construct a ramp down to ground level, I understand that Mr Kingsley has provided confirmation and permission for SMBC to undertake such works-'.

Referring to item 6.137....So Mr Kingsley has authorised SMBC to construct a road on land owned by P.E. Jones in Cheshire East Green Belt and SMBC agreed and paid for it.

6.140 ............................I understand that as a longer-term aim Mr Kingsley seeks to keep open the option of a residential standard road being constructed between Glastonbury Drive to the east and Woodford Road to the west, to serve possible future
housing development [4.45-4.46, 5.51], although any such road would have to cross
land not in Kingsley ownership.

That would be development to the south of the current Hazelbadge development

6.154 In view of my overall conclusions regarding Mr Kingsley's objections, I am not persuaded that confirmation of the CPO would deprive him of existing rights without adequate compensation for loss or diminution of those rights. I consider there would be significant public benefit arising from construction of the A6MARR[3.51, 5.1811, and because of this I conclude that any interference with Mr Kingsley's Human Rights would be both justified and proportionate.

So the Inspector concluded that there was no reason for this road to be constructed and yet SMBC went ahead.

I know Poynton Council are aware of this matter and are pursuing it.

nevab
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:42 pm

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby nevab » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:39 pm

The houses look good, well needed but lets hope they are priced right! Paying £400k for a 3 bed semi detached isn't going to do much for anyone.

I'm interested!

nedsram
Posts: 4718
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:35 pm
Location: Poynton (board admin)

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby nedsram » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:53 pm

A bit of history for those not familiar with it.

Kingsley agreed to sell part of his land to the council to build Lower Park School on the tacit understanding that he would be allowed to sell the remainder of the land for housing. When that didn't work out in his favour, he decided that - from time to time - he would block off access to the land, which had previously been used by local people to gain access to the gasworks and brickworks site, the station, and at one time even to Deva Field by crawling through a large pipe underneath the railway line. (This pipe now holds the sewer which was built to connect with Merton Road. This sewer runs under the access path from Distaff Road, then along the west and north edges of Deva Field.)

For many years the land beyond Hazelbadge Road was an eyesore, littered with derelict farm-type buildings - and at one time part of the area next to the school was overrun by travellers, who left the usual mess when they were finally evicted.

In my view, of all of the areas earmarked for housing, this is the one the loss of which will be mourned the least. It's nice that they are preserving open space next to the brook, and also the gasworks and brickworks sites, but I agree that they should have provided direct access to the station.

The road on the north side of the proposed development is clearly there "in case" they manage to get the rest of this area (to the north) for housing, but there is a precedent where this never happened. Gull Close on the Bird Estate was originally to lead to an extension of the estate leading most of the way to Lostock Hall Farm. When we moved there in the late 1970s, the route of the proposed extension to Mallard Crescent was clearly visible on the ground. Nearly 40 years later, the road is still a cul-de-sac. Guess who owns the land behind the Bird Estate.

As for access from Woodford Road, this seems to make no sense at all in the context of what is being proposed. No doubt he (Kingsley) would have liked to use Lower Park Road as access to a northern extension of the development, but that is realistically not going to happen.

AndrewJ
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby AndrewJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:49 am

nedsram wrote:A bit of history for those not familiar with it.

Kingsley agreed to sell part of his land to the council to build Lower Park School on the tacit understanding that he would be allowed to sell the remainder of the land for housing. When that didn't work out in his favour, he decided that - from time to time - he would block off access to the land, which had previously been used by local people to gain access to the gasworks and brickworks site, the station, and at one time even to Deva Field by crawling through a large pipe underneath the railway line. (This pipe now holds the sewer which was built to connect with Merton Road.
This sewer runs under the access path from Distaff Road, then along the west and north edges of Deva Field.)

...

In my view, of all of the areas earmarked for housing, this is the one the loss of which will be mourned the least. It's nice that they are preserving open space next to the brook, and also the gasworks and brickworks sites, but I agree that they should have provided direct access to the station.

...

As for access from Woodford Road, this seems to make no sense at all in the context of what is being proposed. No doubt he (Kingsley) would have liked to use Lower Park Road as access to a northern extension of the development, but that is realistically not going to happen.


Lower Park School is over 50 years old, so this Kingsley must be getting on a bit. By the sounds of it he owns half of Poynton. He must have worked very hard to accumulate so much land so young. And now he is cashing in on all that hard work and giving back something to the town where he made his millions. Something wonderful like more people, cars and tarmac, which is just what we need. Good on him.

It is true that this land is not the prettiest, however it is the least accessible proposal of the 3. A road from Woodford Road would make sense because it allows traffic to avoid the main roads within Poynton and so not increase the congestion there. Obviously it can't be built across green belt without re-designating the land though.

The site is important in the context of recreation and wildlife, especially since sheep/cow farming stopped, as there is not much green space that side of Poynton. Lots of people already use it, which isn't the case with the other proposals.

As an aside, does anyone know who owns the playing field next to the school? It is freely accessible to the public so I don't think the school owns it. They certainly don't use it as it is currently mainly used as a dog lavatory. There are no council signs there. It is not part of the proposal, so presumably not part of 'Kingsley's' land. Is is just there for school expansion in the future?

AndrewJ
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby AndrewJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:22 pm

nevab wrote:The houses look good, well needed but lets hope they are priced right! Paying £400k for a 3 bed semi detached isn't going to do much for anyone.

I'm interested!


Just like most houses built by the mass-market builders they are just bog standard houses built to the minimum standards for maximum profits. Persimmon are usually one of the worst in the HBF Customer Satisfaction Survey which rates build quality and service, in 2017 they were joint 2nd to last out of 34 large builders. Admittedly they are also one of the biggest builders, but then you'd have thought that they would've figured out how to do it well by now.

I agree they need to be priced more cheaply than Poynton's current housing market, however when have you ever seen new houses for sale that are cheaper than the local existing houses?!

The local housing market seems very overheated and must be due for a correction soon, so it wouldn't surprise me to see house prices in Poynton come back down to more reasonable levels. The houses on my road have increased 40% in price in only 3 years, but in the last year new ones going on the market are now taking many months to sell, if at all (one or two have been taken off the market with no sale).

ma-ogy
Posts: 1316
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby ma-ogy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:09 am

AndrewJ wrote:
nedsram wrote:A bit of history for those not familiar with it.

Kingsley agreed to sell part of his land to the council to build Lower Park School on the tacit understanding that he would be allowed to sell the remainder of the land for housing. When that didn't work out in his favour, he decided that - from time to time - he would block off access to the land, which had previously been used by local people to gain access to the gasworks and brickworks site, the station, and at one time even to Deva Field by crawling through a large pipe underneath the railway line. (This pipe now holds the sewer which was built to connect with Merton Road.
This sewer runs under the access path from Distaff Road, then along the west and north edges of Deva Field.)

...

In my view, of all of the areas earmarked for housing, this is the one the loss of which will be mourned the least. It's nice that they are preserving open space next to the brook, and also the gasworks and brickworks sites, but I agree that they should have provided direct access to the station.

...

As for access from Woodford Road, this seems to make no sense at all in the context of what is being proposed. No doubt he (Kingsley) would have liked to use Lower Park Road as access to a northern extension of the development, but that is realistically not going to happen.


Lower Park School is over 50 years old, so this Kingsley must be getting on a bit. By the sounds of it he owns half of Poynton. He must have worked very hard to accumulate so much land so young. And now he is cashing in on all that hard work and giving back something to the town where he made his millions. Something wonderful like more people, cars and tarmac, which is just what we need. Good on him.

Allegedly the present Mr Kingsley inherited land and property in Poynton from a relative .

rafiki6
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:40 am

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby rafiki6 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:58 pm

An affable Mr Kingsley I spoke with in the 50's owned both what is now the Wimpey estate and Parklands. He had tenant farmers on these estates during the war. I remember the Nixons on Yew Tree and the Batesons at Park Farm.
R

rafiki6
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:40 am

Re: Land at Hazelbadge road consultation event.

Postby rafiki6 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:04 pm

Oh, and it was a low tunnel under the railway, known as the donkey tunnel, which pulled tubs of clay on rails from what is now Deva Field under the railway to the brickworks. Went through it many times.
R


Return to “Poynton Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests