And talking of the Roundels...

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Clarky
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:01 pm

And talking of the Roundels...

Postby Clarky » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:05 pm

...anyway, so.. I drive through Poynton at least twice a day and experience the pleasure of the Roundels. I like them and think the concept is sooooo much better than previous. However, I can't help but notice the increasingly irregular and random nature of repairs to the paving/road surface which has collapsed in some areas. So a few questions that someone may hopefully be able to answer.

* Why have certain (not insignificant) elements collapsed/degraded so soon?
* Why when some of the road has collapsed/degraded has it not been repaired 'like for like' with 'sets'?
* Who is paying for said repairs, council or original contractor installer?

Thanks in advance.
Damnant quod non intellegunt

nedsram
Posts: 4578
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:35 pm
Location: Poynton (board admin)

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby nedsram » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:23 pm

I can answer some of that. The original granite setts were purchased from China. (As you can see, CEC likes to source things locally.) They were stored in an insecure compound on London Road North. Predictably the lot were stolen.

CEC have a very poor record for road repairs. Often the job is not done for ages, and when it is finally done, it's not always done to a standard that people find acceptable.

The original work would have been adequate for a lightly used road system, but the regular pounding by juggernauts has inevitably taken its toll. As far as I'm aware, there are no replacement granite setts available, hence the use of inappropriate materials for repair in some places.

If a certain councillor wants to communicate privately with me, I will publish his response if he so wishes. (No councillor will post on the forum any more, for a number of reasons.)

AnotherWhingerLike_U
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:17 pm

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby AnotherWhingerLike_U » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:17 am

nedsram wrote: ....CEC have a very poor record for road repairs. Often the job is not done for ages, and when it is finally done, it's not always done to a standard that people find acceptable.
The original work would have been adequate for a lightly used road system, but the regular pounding by juggernauts has inevitably taken its toll. As far as I'm aware, there are no replacement granite setts available, hence the use of inappropriate materials for repair in some places....

Sunderland street pavements in Macclesfield are in a shocking state with works signs erected all along them. The paving slabs are just one foot square. Bet they are no longer available hence the random mosaic shapes of tarmac appearing. The intricately shaped pieces at the kerb edge have suffered the worst; many flags still seesaw when stood on. A mess.
Sunderland Street has the same width problem as Poynton’s Park lane; they are both nothing more than a tarted up carthorse track. Both suffering from large and heavy vehicles manoeuvring and offloading.
The damage could be prevented by bollards but that would cause road blockage instead.

So although Sunderland Street is no oil painting, its pavement safety functionality is just as important as Poynton’s. Does Poynton think it has priority to keep shared space looking like a work of art just because so much was initially spent on it? Is it considered to be a showpiece to the world?

Other places in Cheshire East are suffering and getting tarmac. For anything better, get in the queue.

Clarky
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby Clarky » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:58 pm

I think you are missing the point of my questions. Specifically if 'we' paid a considerable sum of money for a new road surface and in a fairly short space of time it started to substantially degrade (as it appears in some places), then I'm interested to know why?

Why was this road surface selected if it is not suitable for laying over 'carthorse tracks'? And, who selected it over an alternative such as tarmacadam?

Nedsram kindly answered the question re replacement paving (it was nicked) but I'm sure something similar could be found if there was a real desire. Tarmacadam patched in looks poor and it's a shame when we consider the level of original investment.

And who is paying for the repairs? Did the original contractor provide a warranty or guarantee? Are they paying for repairs? And if they are still involved, they should perhaps be fixing the poor drainage (e.g. outside the old Natwest) which from memory did not suffer in the same way prior to their installations.
Damnant quod non intellegunt

tankie615
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:42 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby tankie615 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:34 pm

The Shared-Space scheme is obviously cracking up. The reason, a combination of perhaps inappropriate materials and construction quality/methods coupled with an unforeseen (god knows why!), volume of traffic both light and extremely heavy using it.
The answer is not a 'make do and mend' job, (until when/what??), this will only degrade what was originally a quality looking job.
The answer is to somehow button-hole the contractors, the naïve councillors who ordered the storage of the (nicked) spare materials and the Cheshire East characters responsible for highway repairs.
They should be forced out of their cosy retreats to appear before a 'select committee' of local people and in front of an audience of local people to answer the sensible important questions as put by Clarky.
It's true a lot of money was used on this scheme, which some would say should have been used elsewhere, so it is very important to ensure that the outlay isn't wasted on inappropriate patching up!
PS: What the heck has Sunderland Street in Macclesfield got to do with this post??

POYNTONIAN 1
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:55 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby POYNTONIAN 1 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:47 pm

* collapsed/degraded areas are due to a) poor workmanship/management & b) poor choice of materials/design. A major part of both parts of the scheme were carried out during 2 of the worst winters recently & during both work carried on virtually non stop due to the pressure applied to the contractors by highways, CE & a frustrated public. On many days work proceeded, laying paviors on concrete, in freezing conditions totally against British Standards with contractors signing disclaimers to contrete supplier. Very little or no precautions(heat) were taken during construction, the resulting movement/collapse of materials is partly due to this. Also blocks do not react well to power steering, rear wheel steering or lateral movement caused by heavy vehicles & are not a good design choice for a highway. The design, moving/narrowing of the carriageways has also had an effect as ironwork, manholes & gullies are now being routinely driven over by vehicle wheels which is causing movement/collapse. Manhole/gully covers work best when securely fixed by concrete, Tarmac or HRA blocks do not offer this level of support against lateral movement. Again weather plays a part, during wet conditions the silica sand between blocks washes out & in freeze thaw conditions they move. These problems will over time get worse & we are only 6/7 years into the life of the road.

* Many repairs will be undertaken by Stat Authorites who are only legally responsible to make the surface safe for use, generally using Tarmac or HRA & cannot be expected to have the appropriate materials to match a very unique finish found in Poynton. Many of the original materials were stored in the council yard on London Rd Nth & were stolen, there are some great patios/drives locally!!!!!, what remained were removed by CE to "who knows where".

* We the council tax payers are probably paying in the long term

Before anyone jumps on this post I totally support the shared space scheme & think it's vastly improved the Village but the design, choice of materials & workmanship have unfortunatly let us all down. All the road surface should have been HRA or Tarmac & paviors used on footpaths & light use areas.

WigleyWoggled
Posts: 1564
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:53 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby WigleyWoggled » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:40 pm

I agree with all of whats said here.

If any of us paid for work done we can expect protection should anything go wrong. Why is it then when its public money being spent, our money, the same protection seems not afforded.

What we can do is write to the Ombudsman, MP and the news media. We can also organise our own public meeting and invite CEC and local Councillors to explain themselves, news media invited of course.

It really is disgraceful the way this whole works has been organised. In effect, we can question the suitability of CEC to handle such projects and demand government intervention over a possible waste of public funds and inept management !

vmeldrew
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:23 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby vmeldrew » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:31 am

Brilliant Post, Poyntonian 1. Couldn't have put it better myself. Only problem is that CEC are replicating the Poynton scheme across the county. Expensive mistake!

POYNTONIAN 1
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:55 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby POYNTONIAN 1 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:33 am

Thanks vic! Just posted my observations & knowledge of both people who worked on scheme(former employees of mine) & a supplier who was put under immense pressure to carry on when he knew he shouldn't be sending concrete. Think the village generally looks great & has improved the atmosphere & had paviours been used solely on footpaths we might not have had to have the cracked yellow surfacing on London Rd footpaths

tankie615
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:42 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby tankie615 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:08 am

I agree with vmeldrew, great post POYNTONIAN 1. It always helps to hear some of the other side of the argument to balance out the discussion.
I would be interested to know if Cheshire East council have learned lessons from the Poynton model when contemplating implementing the same 'traffic solution' elsewhere in Cheshire?? Do the police have the 'foggiest' who stole the stored materials - answers on a post card.


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