And talking of the Roundels...

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POYNTONIAN 1
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Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:55 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby POYNTONIAN 1 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:30 pm

POYNTONIAN 1 wrote:* collapsed/degraded areas are due to a) poor workmanship/management & b) poor choice of materials/design. A major part of both parts of the scheme were carried out during 2 of the worst winters recently & during both work carried on virtually non stop due to the pressure applied to the contractors by highways, CE & a frustrated public. On many days work proceeded, laying paviors on concrete, in freezing conditions totally against British Standards with contractors signing disclaimers to contrete supplier. Very little or no precautions(heat) were taken during construction, the resulting movement/collapse of materials is partly due to this. Also blocks do not react well to power steering, rear wheel steering or lateral movement caused by heavy vehicles & are not a good design choice for a highway. The design, moving/narrowing of the carriageways has also had an effect as ironwork, manholes & gullies are now being routinely driven over by vehicle wheels which is causing movement/collapse. Manhole/gully covers work best when securely fixed by concrete, Tarmac or HRA blocks do not offer this level of support against lateral movement. Again weather plays a part, during wet conditions the silica sand between blocks washes out & in freeze thaw conditions they move. These problems will over time get worse & we are only 6/7 years into the life of the road.

* Many repairs will be undertaken by Stat Authorites who are only legally responsible to make the surface safe for use, generally using Tarmac or HRA & cannot be expected to have the appropriate materials to match a very unique finish found in Poynton. Many of the original materials were stored in the council yard on London Rd Nth & were stolen, there are some great patios/drives locally!!!!!, what remained were removed by CE to "who knows where".

* We the council tax payers are probably paying in the long term

Before anyone jumps on this post I totally support the shared space scheme & think it's vastly improved the Village but the design, choice of materials & workmanship have unfortunatly let us all down. All the road surface should have been HRA or Tarmac & paviors used on footpaths & light use areas.

Desmo Man
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby Desmo Man » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:29 pm

The area of Park Lane outside Costa coffee / Acoustic lounge and the Waitrose cross roads was laid during the coldest time of that year. A gazebo was used to cover the work men when they were laying the bricks to protect them from the snow and freezing rain. This part of Park lane is still in good condition so blaming the cold weather is not the answer really.

POYNTONIAN 1
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:55 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby POYNTONIAN 1 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:46 pm

Concrete should not be laid in freeze conditions & shouldn't be used below 2deg. A gazebo would make absolutely no difference apart from keeping workers dry. At the same time Building control didn't allow construction & we didn't lay a brick for 19 working days!!!! The only time work stopped on Park La was when the water tanks at Alpha Concrete froze over a weekend.

Desmo Man
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby Desmo Man » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:20 pm

As I said a Gazebo was used to KEEP the weather of the work men. So why has not the road surface that was laid during the coldest part of that winter deteriorated in the area I have mentioned !.

POYNTONIAN 1
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:55 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby POYNTONIAN 1 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:34 pm

During the worst of the weather, which was Dec 2010 the work being carried out was to the south side of Park La between ASDA & just below the Farmers

zzippy
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:27 pm
Location: The rough end of Poynton

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby zzippy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:16 pm

POYNTONIAN 1 wrote:Concrete should not be laid in freeze conditions & shouldn't be used below 2deg. A gazebo would make absolutely no difference apart from keeping workers dry. At the same time Building control didn't allow construction & we didn't lay a brick for 19 working days!!!! The only time work stopped on Park La was when the water tanks at Alpha Concrete froze over a weekend.

Spot on.
I bet you can guarantee none of the "volumetric" concrete plant 'trucks' referred to rather than proper mixer trucks are QSRMC certified (Quality scheme for ready mixed concrete "For Ned's benefit" after my bollocking for use of acronyms :) http://www.qsrmc.co.uk/index2.php ) in the unlikely event that it was not in the spec to use properly certified suppliers. Heck you don't even need a HGV licence to drive those plant vehicles :|
After the couple of bad winters a few years ago which has led to a massive spate of potholes, resurfacing and tarmac laying works are supposed to be embargoed over winter months from what I can gather unless there is a desperate need.

nedsram
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:35 pm
Location: Poynton (board admin)

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby nedsram » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:37 pm

Bollocking? I thought that I was pretty polite.

Seriously, I think that there were contractual reasons for proceeding with the work during the inclement weather. Plus if the work had been delayed due to the freezing conditions, people would have been quick to moan about that as well. Sometimes you just can't win.

POYNTONIAN 1
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:55 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby POYNTONIAN 1 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:24 am

You do need a HGV licence. The concrete was supplied by CE approved(& they used them) company & meets all British Standards/guarantees. Worst concrete I've ever seen was from volumetric trucks that had been over mixed during transport (an example of this, which happened many times, was a 50mm slump test of 110mm/25N/mm concrete cubes failing at less than 20N/mm)

zzippy
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:27 pm
Location: The rough end of Poynton

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby zzippy » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:24 am

POYNTONIAN 1 wrote:You do need a HGV licence.
That's interesting, Do you have a link to the date the changes came into force ? Maybe my info is out of date
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/201 ... te-mixers/
http://smartcompliance.descartes.com/ne ... -to-close/
POYNTONIAN 1 wrote:The concrete was supplied by CE approved(& they used them) company & meets all British Standards/Guarantees
.
That's a political answer that doesn't say if it was QSRMC certified and anyone could tick a box to approve something if they don't know the technicalities(from experience). CE approved ? define that :) A box tick ?
POYNTONIAN 1 wrote:Worst concrete I've ever seen was from volumetric trucks that had been over mixed during transport (an example of this, which happened many times, was a 50mm slump test of 110mm/25N/mm concrete cubes failing at less than 20N/mm)

"Volumetric trucks" cannot mix during transport ever, that's why they have a little mixer on the back, that will be a "truck mixer" and yup they certainly do produce some 'carp' depending on the 'batcher' but for years they have produced or should have keep a printout/log of every load produced.
Anyway I suppose the technicalities of the products used may be somewhat off topic for :|
And don't start on why the blocks came from China ;) as most things are done on cost probably :)
Anyway I'm off for a sleep.

tankie615
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:42 am

Re: And talking of the Roundels...

Postby tankie615 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:47 pm

What the....., all Greek to me, sounds good tho'. Get a room you two!


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