Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

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Adora
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Location: Near the park.

Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Adora » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:34 pm

AGREE!!!!! So many signs, instructions, advertising boards and gawd knows what else around now, you've read the equivalent of War & Peace by the time you've nipped down to Stockport and back!

Clarky
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Clarky » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:03 pm

nedsram wrote:
Adora wrote:So, the Sainsbury's money has finally been spent and a number of speed calming measures have been added to Chester road.

There's a VERY vocal portion of the community who are mad as hell about them.

I saw them for the first time last night. Add me to the list. A pointless waste of money.

Adora wrote:I'm fresh off a speed awareness course (got zapped doing 37mph in the 30mph Jackson's Lane). The course was excellent actually. One thing that's really stuck in my mind is the science behind the difference just 5 mph can make once you drive over 30mph.

It's physics basically - the force generated by the extra 5mph rotates the body and because the head is heaviest, the victim doesn't just get thrown to the floor -they flip and crash head down to the road, hence, broken necks, paralysis, death etc.

I see you've been indoctrinated with the "speed kills" rubbish. Bad driving and poor anticipation are what kill, not exceeding some arbitrary maximum permitted speed. If a child plunged off the pavement straight in front of you, he would probably die whether you were doing 30 or 37. There's an advert "driver in a hurry - child in a coma" on our local superloo near Fountain Place. Completely and utterly the wrong message - as well as being a completely faked "photograph" of a child sent flying through the air by a "speeding" car! (For example, why did the child plunge into the road without looking, straight in front of the car? Assuming you believe that any such incident actually happened. :evil: )

As there are no fixed speed cameras on Jackson's Lane, I assume that you were done by a policeman with a "hair dryer". Bad luck. At least you didn't get three points on your licence (as I did in North Wales once for doing 35 on a deserted road).


You're right, speed does not kill - poor driving kills. Similarly with guns - they pose no risk until someone loads them and pulls the trigger. Fundamentally, the problem therefore is not the gun.

I must say however, thank goodness SMBC has taken steps to try and curb the sometimes ridiculous speeds on Chester Road. They get my support for actually doing something.

Few people would suggest the speed humps positively add to the visual amenity, but something needed to be done about the stupid speeds some road users think is acceptable on Chester Road.

I was disappointed recently, to read in the local press that a few road users were criticising the new calming measures. By their own admission not local people, but folk who use Cavendish/Chester Road as a cut through.

Clearly these people have never had children nor have elderly or infirm relatives. I know this for sure because I simply do not believe they would be comfortable in the knowledge of their loved ones walking the pavements or crossing Chester Road in the knowledge that some 'irresponsible and selfish muppet' sees fit to drive at excessive speeds.

What was interesting from the data SMBC collected in support of these measures, was how they collated average speed data. This is misleading, because what average speed data does not reveal are the simply mad and alarming speeds of a significant minority.
Damnant quod non intelligunt

nedsram
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Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby nedsram » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:14 pm

Sadly "boy racers" are endemic in the area. They regularly belt along roads with a quite reasonable 30 limit at speeds well in excess of 60 mph. I was nearly taken out by one the other evening. I was turning right into our estate. When I started the manoeuvre he wasn't in sight, but I only just made it before he arrived. Sadly traffic calming is the only way to control them; they treat speed limits with contempt. Unfortunately SMBC seem to have this knack of making a complete mess of road schemes. What on earth were they thinking of when they put in that obstacle course at Mirrlees on Bramhall Moor Lane? And the siting of the traffic island on Chester Road isn't exactly wonderful either. I believe somebody demolished one of the bollards recently.

Clarky
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Clarky » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:11 am

nedsram wrote:Sadly "boy racers" are endemic in the area. They regularly belt along roads with a quite reasonable 30 limit at speeds well in excess of 60 mph.


I also regularly see the same...

nedsram wrote:What on earth were they thinking of when they put in that obstacle course at Mirrlees on Bramhall Moor Lane? And the siting of the traffic island on Chester Road isn't exactly wonderful either. I believe somebody demolished one of the bollards recently.


Maybe they were thinking about designing it in a way which forces road users to slow down, or risk hitting a curb or bollard? I really don't know, but, I'll bet the person who hit the bollard will drive more slowly next time, and, thank goodness their "poor driving skills" resulted only in a damaged bollard. I mean, if they cannot drive in a way which avoids them hitting a bright yellow 3ft high sign, what hope is there for them seeing a child stepping out from behind a parked car on a wet gloomy winter night?

Incidentally, I'm not anti car etc. just in full support of the council taking steps to reduce speed on a road which is seen by some as an opportunity to how fast they can drive.
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Adamski
Posts: 91
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Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Adamski » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:25 pm

Clarky wrote:Incidentally, I'm not anti car etc. just in full support of the council taking steps to reduce speed on a road which is seen by some as an opportunity to how fast they can drive.

But us locals who do drive down there every day will get tyre and suspension damage where there was nothing before. Seriously considering changing my petrol car for a diesel 4x4 as it'll do better mileage and handle the bobbins roads in the area better. If they spent the money repairing the majority of road surfaces first, people would be happier. Sticking a bit of tar and a bag of grit on Bramhall Moor Lane is not an improvement, bald patches will appear as they always do with the grit. Sorting out Chester Road where it meets Grundey Street would be a start. Proper resurfacing !!

Clarky
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Clarky » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:31 am

Adamski wrote:
Clarky wrote:Incidentally, I'm not anti car etc. just in full support of the council taking steps to reduce speed on a road which is seen by some as an opportunity to how fast they can drive.


But us locals who do drive down there every day will get tyre and suspension damage where there was nothing before.


Not if you reduce your speed. That's the point :roll:

Adamski wrote:Seriously considering changing my petrol car for a diesel 4x4 as it'll do better mileage and handle the bobbins roads in the area better.


The general state of the roads is certainly not good, but if you're thinking of swapping your car so you can charge over road humps faster then I'm worried...

Adamski wrote:Sorting out Chester Road where it meets Grundey Street would be a start. Proper resurfacing !!


I agree that section of road is poor. But to really sort the problem at that junction, the road needs widening which would either require having no pavement at all or demolishing houses.
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Clarky
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Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Clarky » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:56 am

nedsram wrote:
Belvoir wrote:I am currently doing the Advanced driving course... :) I would recomend it to anyone.. :clap

A relative of mine could do with one of those. She has little idea what's going on ahead, as she spends all her time looking at the speedo to make sure she isn't above the speed limit. Sometimes she drives at 30 in a 40 area - she didnt see the 40 sign. I just hope no child runs out in front of her. But hey, she isn't speeding so that's OK isn't it. :twisted:


It's a fact Nedsram, that the faster you are going when you hit something or somebody, there is an increased likelehood of more damage/worse injuries.

30mph may well be the legal limit outside a school, but it's possibly not a good idea and probably not the speed of a careful driver, at least during school hours. However, 30mph outside the same school in heavy rain, limited visibility, parked cars on both sides at 3.15pm is down right irresponsible, though still not braking the speed limit....

The issue of speed is about education and social responsibility. Sadly, some people are uneducated to the risks/outcomes, and appear to lack responsibility. As such, big brother tries to intervene with physical ‘things’ to force people to drive more slowly. Needs must.

Anyone who moans about being caught for speeding should think about how they would feel, if one of their loved ones (god forbid) was hit by a speeding motorist, in the knowledge that if the vehicle had been going slower, their loved ones prognosis would have been significantly better.

The IAM advocate driving at "a speed which allows you to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear".

Before you ask, yes I have broken the speed limit. Yes I have been caught and fined. Yes I deserved it and yes if I speed again and get caught I won’t complain.

A thought for anyone reading this, on a journey you do regularly where you know exactly how long it normally takes (like to work etc) consider staying within the speed limit every single mile of the way. You may be surprised to discover that your journey typically takes the same time (as when you drift over the given speed limit), or the difference is so insignificant it makes little or no difference.
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nedsram
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Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby nedsram » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:16 pm

Clarky wrote:
nedsram wrote:
Belvoir wrote:I am currently doing the Advanced driving course... :) I would recomend it to anyone.. :clap

A relative of mine could do with one of those. She has little idea what's going on ahead, as she spends all her time looking at the speedo to make sure she isn't above the speed limit. Sometimes she drives at 30 in a 40 area - she didnt see the 40 sign. I just hope no child runs out in front of her. But hey, she isn't speeding so that's OK isn't it. :twisted:


It's a fact Nedsram, that the faster you are going when you hit something or somebody, there is an increased likelehood of more damage/worse injuries.

30mph may well be the legal limit outside a school, but it's possibly not a good idea and probably not the speed of a careful driver, at least during school hours. However, 30mph outside the same school in heavy rain, limited visibility, parked cars on both sides at 3.15pm is down right irresponsible, though still not braking the speed limit....

The issue of speed is about education and social responsibility. Sadly, some people are uneducated to the risks/outcomes, and appear to lack responsibility. As such, big brother tries to intervene with physical ‘things’ to force people to drive more slowly. Needs must.

Anyone who moans about being caught for speeding should think about how they would feel, if one of their loved ones (god forbid) was hit by a speeding motorist, in the knowledge that if the vehicle had been going slower, their loved ones prognosis would have been significantly better.

The IAM advocate driving at "a speed which allows you to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear".

Before you ask, yes I have broken the speed limit. Yes I have been caught and fined. Yes I deserved it and yes if I speed again and get caught I won’t complain.

A thought for anyone reading this, on a journey you do regularly where you know exactly how long it normally takes (like to work etc) consider staying within the speed limit every single mile of the way. You may be surprised to discover that your journey typically takes the same time (as when you drift over the given speed limit), or the difference is so insignificant it makes little or no difference.

Well you've certainly put the "speed kills" argument across very well. As I said the issue is not whether the speed is illegal, but whether the speed is appropriate. I wouldn't dream of belting past a school in heavy rain at home time. It wouldn't be an appropriate speed. The real menaces are the ones who drive at exactly the speed limit (as indicated on the speedo, which is always higher than the actual speed) regardless of the conditions. All they pay attention to is their speed, and they consider themselves to be "safe" drivers because they never "speed". Usually they're so busy looking at the speedo that if a child ran in front of them they wouldn't even notice. Which would you prefer, somebody who adjusts his speed according to the road conditions and is aware of potential hazards, or somebody with his eyes glued to the speedo albeit not "speeding"?

Clarky
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby Clarky » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:17 am

Nedsram, I think you may have misread my post. I said previously, it’s not speed that kills, it’s bad driving that kills people in the same sense that guns dont’t kill people, it's the person who pulls the trigger who makes the decision to kill. Slow speed or high speed, if it’s at the wrong time in the wrong place it’s not good. The speed itself is not the problem; it’s the person driving that’s potentially the issue.

People who drive exactly at the speed limit are not necessarily the menaces – yes they are a menace if it’s the wrong speed for the conditions but let’s not pretend that a slow speed is worse than high speed. I accept you could have a bad driver going slower than a skilled high speed driver, yet the slower driver could pose more risk of causing an accident. The difference being, at a slow speed the consequences of that accident is likely to be far less.

As for looking down at the speedo to see how fast you are going – Nedsram you definitely know some worryingly bad drivers! Surely anyone who has been driving for a while knows what 30mph feels like...? You don’t need to constantly look at the speedo (at the cost of not looking at where you are going) to know you are driving over or under 30mph etc.

And I think you will find that most speedos read over the actual speed you are traveling, not the other way around. So if you are showing 35mph, its likely your actial speed is around 33. The higher the speed, the more exagerated the innacuracy normally becomes.

Before we get too far off topic, the simple fact is this. If road users drove at appropriate speeds on Chester Road (or A N Other road – it makes no difference), speed humps would not be required. Some people don’t drive appropriately so additional measures have been implemented to try and mitigate the problem. Road humps are not a solution, they are a fix. The problem is the selfish individuals who drive recklessly. I feel sure a fix for this would be that anyone caught seriously exceeding the speed limit should be made to attend a road accident with the fire brigade, to witness for themselves the effects of bad driving. That would provide a cure for all save for those beyond any hope.
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nedsram
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Re: Speed Calming Measures Chester Rd

Postby nedsram » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:44 am

Clarky wrote:And I think you will find that most speedos read over the actual speed you are traveling, not the other way around. So if you are showing 35mph, its likely your actial speed is around 33. The higher the speed, the more exagerated the innacuracy normally becomes.

That's what I meant. If those "your speed" gizmos are correctly calibrated, the difference could be higher.
Clarky wrote:Before we get too far off topic, the simple fact is this. If road users drove at appropriate speeds on Chester Road (or A N Other road – it makes no difference), speed humps would not be required. Some people don’t drive appropriately so additional measures have been implemented to try and mitigate the problem. Road humps are not a solution, they are a fix. The problem is the selfish individuals who drive recklessly. I feel sure a fix for this would be that anyone caught seriously exceeding the speed limit should be made to attend a road accident with the fire brigade, to witness for themselves the effects of bad driving. That would provide a cure for all save for those beyond any hope.

Yes we are way off topic, and there are other forums for this sort of thing (such as safespeed). Cheshire police do in fact give speeders an option like the one you suggest.

Of course we are all much better drivers than the others. :mrgreen:


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